his owner gets him groomed to look by the popular character. he has a facebook page. charles the monarch's owner says he has seen people run to their cars in shock. he tells people he is a labalion and half of them believe them. he is friendly and loves hanging out at old dominion and last time we checked he had 6,000 friends on facebook. it probably a good idea to let people know if you see a lion roaming the streets. there is only one place where there is a fine line between a lion and a tailgate loving lion. thank you for joining us piers

morgan starts right now. tonight, is washington getting the message? over four million of you heard my explosive interview. >> can you push me to say this to him. >> you are a stupid man aren't you. >> plus families of the aurara family movie victims. plus what has to happen to stop the kill. >> the american public is going to put up with more delays. >> this is "piers morgan tonight". good evening. live at the white house where vice president joe biden said his boss is considering taking

executive action without waiting for congress. tonight, i'm in favor of a nationwide ban on semiautomatic assault weapons and magazines. i want to close the gun shows. and i'd like to see president obama increase federal funding. it would go a long way to at least try to stop the deadly toll on gun violence. things got heated the last time he was here take a listen. >> it seem to me you are morally obtuse. and i don't know why you want to be the criminal's friend. >> what a ridiculous argument. >> larry prapratt, welcome back

you. >> thank you for having me. >> why did you agree to come back? >> well, i thought maybe we could help you sell some more newspapers. >> more newspapers? yoo >> increase your viewership. >> we are a television channel you are aware of that? >> i'm sorry yes, of course. >> if you are in the meeting tomorrow with vice president biden tomorrow what would you be saying? >> that the discussion has not been going anywhere that we can tell in a productive way. we are not talking about people defending themselves precisely in these gun-free zones. hopefully, at some point, we are going to come to the realization that repeating the same policy year after year getting the same deadly results is only going to get us the same deadly results the next time >> right, so your solution if

you were there in that meeting would be to arm every school, church, hospital, everywhere that members of the public can be? >> you certainly would want to encourage people who are qualified to carry concealed fire arm to be able to do so in a school zone. right now that is illegal in all but a couple of our states and institutions of higher learning. but by and large it is prohibited. that need to stop because we have been using those at magnets where all of our mass murders have been occurring in these gun free zones. it seems that we have a fixation that no defense is a good defense and that is not a good idea. >> here is high issue with this claim that you keep making. and that is not wrong. these mass shooters pretty well know they are going to die. they go to kill a lot of people

and they know at some stage that they are going to die. all mass shooters pretty much get killed. >> right and sometimes kill themselves. >> why would the gun free zone make a difference to them? >> they are looking for, it could seem in their sick minds, to see if they can out do the virginia tech slaughter. so, why should we give them a neon sign that says well, see if you can do better than the last guy over here. >> you know there was an armed person at virginia technology and at ft. hood, one of the most heavily guarded military bases in the world people were killed and wounded. >> and it was a fun free zone no guns on base unless you were an mp. >> my point, when you have a

mass of well trained people and a mass of fire arms you can still have massacres you would accept that? >> especially if you are telling the potential al victim you can't be armed. you have to wait for the calvary to get five, ten or 20 minutes later. i find that unkoconsunconsable. >> do you know how many mass shootings have been in the last 30 years. >> i don't have a number. >> i can tell you the answer 62. do you know of those 62 mass shootings how many times a civilian has taken out the shooter? >> it is probably not that many because we make it so hard for people to defend themselves. >> wait a minute. you have in america, 300 million guns in circulation.

you wouldn't contest that. 99 laws have been passed since 2009 to make it easier for american to own guns to carry them in public harder for the government to track. what i'm seeing here is a picture of ever more relaxed gun laws and a spike in mass shootings and six of the 12 worst ever shootings have come in the last five year. >> that is not correct. >> it is true. >> these are facts these aren't things -- you can laugh. you always laugh. i don't find it remotely funny. the point is there has been an escalation in the number of mass shootings in the last five years. the aurora movie shooting was the single worst shooting in the terms of people hit and the sandy hook shooting was the worst school shooting. and every time you come out and

you are very vocal and you are proud of what you say and say the same thing. if everybody had been armed somebody would have killed the shooter and prevented the massacres. >> if we would be talking the way you want to talk. we are not going to talk about making people easy to defend themselves. because there was somebody on the scene who was able to shoot back. >> again, again -- >> nor are we talking about the federal government. >> let me jump in here. >> or putti inting guns in the of the mexican car tell resulting in the deaths of over 400 mexicans and counts or eric holder and his justice department. >> let's stay on the point i was trying to make. in the last 30 years there have

been 62 mass shootings. not a single one has been thwarted by a single civilian. >> that doesn't rise to the level of being a mass shooting. it gets nipped in the bud. so of course we are not going to have those statistics because a good guy with a gun was able to get there before the body count mounted. >> general mccrystal has on anderson cooper earlier. he said he doesn't want his family anywhere near the assault weapons i'm particularly exercised about. we have a clip here from "morning joe" to show you why. >> i spent a career carrying m-16 and m-4 and it fires a 223 caliber round which is 5.56

milimeter when it hits a human body the effects are devastating. it is designed to do that. i don't think there is any need for that weaponry on the streets and around the schools in america. >> why do you know more about the impact and capability than the general? >> while the general was visiting outside of the country, he may not have noticed the korean merchants who used the ar 15 rifles with large magazines to defend themselves during the la riots that was 20 years ago. those men. >> did you know how long ago that was. >> let me finish my point. >> it was 20 years ago. there has never been anything

like it before or after. >> the argument -- >> they were being used by the people around new orleans to be able to defend themselves and after hurricanes in florida people were using these kinds of fire arms to be able to defend themselves. when you have a woman in a closet who is only able to deter a guy with five shots that hit the guy's head and he still walks out of the house. if there had been two assailants i don't think she would have done so well. >> the last shootings ip involve the military style assault rifle. even in connecticut which has supposedly tough gun cone troll laws. why do you feel civilians should

still be able to have access to these killing machines. >> because the general and his troops are not going to be able to be there to protect americans nor the police after a hurricane or after an earthquake during riots. and i appreciate his service to the country and the military. but he is not dealing with what a villains have to put up with in the vacuum of somebody to protect them. and i don't want to deal with the six shot resolver. i want a real gun to be able to check myself and my family. it is not likely to be one roving bad guy it is likely to be a gang of people. this is the real world where we are going to need sufficient fire power to protect ourselves. >> i think you have 300 guns in

circulation. that is why, i want to read this carefully. i heard you this morning talking to alex jones. and you were talking about these figures from britain and how apparently the gun control in britain has been a fiasco and crime has been through the roof. so i dugout the homicide figures from guns in england and wales by comparison to the united states of america going back to 2003. i'm going to read these quickly to you 2003, gun murders in england 68. in america 11,920. in america 11,624. in 2005, 50 innen land, in america 12,352. >> now. -- >> let me finish.

here is my point. every time i hear you say, there is a safer country where you have more guns my brain takes me back to these figures in britain we brought in a handgun and assault weapon ban after a situation where a similar number of school children were murdere. this is what happens when you take a responsibilieresponsible. action. why do you still persist in trying to persuade americans that the opposite is true. >> first of all, the data that you are using for the murder rate in england is a shame. there is a monumental miss reporting of what consti toots murder. >> what an absolute lie. >> well -- you don't know what you are talking about.

>> mr. pratt, it doesn't take very long. >> you are loothese are your ow government's data. go tell them that they are lying. you asked them for an apology why don't you. >> you are telling me that 50 murders a year. these are invented statistics and the figures in britain for gun murders are many more times that? >> that is what your own constabulary is saying. i don't know if you are including the murders that occurred well after the gun ban in which 12 people were murdered on the west coast of england. >> don't be patronising. 39 in 2011. >> no you had 970. i don't know what you are talking about. >> this is nonsense, mr. pratt.

>> you are from another planet. and that is why you are having trouble living in america. >> you are telling me on cnn we had how many last year? >> 970 and you have a crime rate that is the 4th highest in the world. >> you have just propagated a lie. >> go tell the editors of the telegraph who published that information two days after our last interview. >> there were 39 gun murders in 2011. >> you are whistling past the graveyard. >> you are twisting it so that americans who are watching this who may be attempting to buy into this rush out to buy more weapons and more ammunition more guns less gun murders it is based on lies and you are

propagated another lie and you have said that a figure of 39 the official figures from the british home office 39 gun murders in 2011 in england and wales. it is outrageous. >> i'm sure you will feel so much better being defenceless until you need a gun and then it will be too late to buy an insurance policy. >> let's take a break. try to stick if you can to facts and not lies. that would be helpful to the tenure of this debate. ♪

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back now with larry pratt. let's play a clip from my interview from monday night's show. >> i'm here to tell you 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms. it doesn't matter we will not relink wish them. do you understand that is why you are going to fail. the republic will rise again when you attempt to take our

guns. >> what do you make of mr. jones performance on the interview? >> well, it seemed that you had improved your demean or quite a bit and i congregaatulate you f maintaining it during that whole interview. he maintaini ins that americansd to be heavily armed. do you believe that? >> that is what our founders believed. that is what is important that is why we have the second amendment. as our bill of rights, our ten amendments are designed to limit what the federal government can do. that includes the right of the people to keep and bear arms. >> as you know, that applies to a well regulated militia. >> you are going to loose that argument. the court kourcourts agree that

militia act of 1796 which required all able body men to own a military rifle so that they would have it at the ready were they called up. >> how many guns do you want in america mr. pratt? yoo that is not for me to decide. that is for individual meamerics to decide. >> do you think every american should have an ar 15? >> every american should be able to get an ar 15. that is their choice. >> what are you going to do if president obama wins his battle and brings in new gun control legislation? >> well, he is not going to do it by legislative in my opinion. what i'm concerned about and have been concerned about, having seen the president rule by executive order where he has no authority i can see that he

would go ahead. and the vice president has hinted at an executive order that moves toward their gun cone troll agenda. i i would advice mr. obama what happened to george the third when he was doing similar things against the american colonists. >> he hasn't banned the importation of ball and powder yet. and george the third as you probably know, was so stressed by the loss of his famous favorite colony that he ended his days in a nut house, and i wouldn't wish that on anybody. >> when i talk to you mr. pratt,

i always look for some sense of humanity that you could react to the sandy hook massacre in the way that i do and many other people did. and i never see it from you. i only see a determined attempt that the only outcome that the gun manufacturers sell more guns and ammunition as we saw in december record gun and record sales. >> i would ask you, where is the humanity where is the humanity where you tell them they must sit there and do nothing. >> the humanity was being able to do nothing during the massacre. that was the lack of humanity. and you know what, this will come as more lies from larry

pratt. it is entirely possible that the house of representatives will do away with the gun free school jones. >> and you would be happy with that? >> you are a good guesser yes, sir. >> where are they going to put them? >> well, when people carry a concealed fire arm one doesn't know for sure and the element of surprise remains with the person concealed. the person doesn't know which person or persons might be able to stop him and that is why our jurisdictions that have easy access to concealed carry fire arms enjoy lower murder rates than say chicago which does better than one murder a day. >> you are a very experienced man in your field. you have run your operation for a long time and people take you

seriously. you are a leading member in the gun rights lobby. i'm going to give you one more chance before we finish to say how many gun murders you believed were in england in 2011. >> more important. i'm not going to really care about -- >> can you repeat the number of gun murders. >> the data we have seen was 970. that pales in significant to your crame rate overall. >> everyone watching can google and go to the home office site in england and wales and check that figure for themselves and when they see the accurate figure was 39 in 20101 and the

figure was over is 11,000. >> your data are sham. >> as they say, they can check it for themselves. >> check out the shame data my friend. that is great. >> you are not friend of mine. thank you for joining me. >> next up, two people who lost loved ones in aurora. yo, give it up, dude! up high! ok. don't you have any usefull apps on that thing?

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in colorado today, the preliminary hearing for accused shooting james holmes endeded with these words, he intended to kill them all. joining me now, those whose loved ones were killed in that shooting. if i may, by asking you for your reaction to my nfrt interview with larry operate. what did you think? >> i definitely think piers that more guns are not the answer. because, that puts that many more guns in the hands of people who have mental illness and it becomes a fear factor for people

nationwide. >> tom, you lost your son in an appalling massacre. the worst single shooting in the history of the united states. when you hear somebody like larry pratt saying that the only way to ever deal with this is to plunge more guns into circulation what is your reaction to that? >> i struggle with it. a, i wonder what he would think if he was in my shoes and think about the scene and we have a good understanding of what the scene was like that night and only the people that were in there can really know. and i think that we need to recognize that. but he was -- there was smoke, people couldn't see, he had an automatic weapon, he had an automatic shotgun, two revolvers that didn't need to be reloaded so if somebody -- they are not going to walk in with an assault

weapon. they are going to stand up in the fog and shoot at him. everybody ip including him around that person who shot at him would be dead. if there were ten people in there and people started running around you might have had 15 or 20 people shot from friendly fire. i think the answer, the word assault meant that it was a felony. i think these things are called the wrong thing i think they should be called murder weapons. i think we should say if you have one you have to give them back. they will ban the assault weapons but then they work the stats in their favor. it is like y2k and you had the tech bubble burst. that is going to blow up your stats and are giving them the fodder to do it. >> you have raised a good point. you have to do what happened in

britain and australia. they bring in a ban and they mean it. you can't carry one or own one and if you haven't handed it in and you keep this weapon then you go to prison for a long time and that is the only way that you an enforce a ban. jessica, this is such an important debate that suffered so terribly after these massacres. when you hear this argument all the time that it comes down to a right to bear arms under the second amendment of the united states constitution? what do you think of that argument? >> well, seeing as it is this will be my 4th time with gun violence, in just the short you know couple year period, it is -- um, i don't know who to

put it it is definitely you know, people need to understand, what the different timypes of gs are. we don't need these semiautomatics that can shoot 8 bullets a second. >> have you heard a co here rant argument why anybody needs this ar 15 assault weapon and also, a magazine that can hold 100 bullets? have you heard any good argument? >> absolutely not. again, i think these things are worth to kill people. if people i think we need to be careful of people who want to have weapons that can kill people. hone honestly, if i was a police officer, i would ban together and say look, you take these weapons off the streets or we

are not going to protect you anymore. because those people, my son died but those people are out there every day putting their lives on the line and we need to support them. >> you make another very good point. >> thank you both very much. >> thank you. thank you. >> when we come back. what is the truth about the second amendment and what is it's in tent and what can president really do? i'll ask my all-star panel. why not make lunch more than just lunch? with two times the points on dining in restaurants, you may find yourself asking why not, a lot. chase sapphire preferred. there's more to enjoy.

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the president is going to act with executive orders and action that can be taken. we haven't decided what that is yet. but we are compiling it all wit the help of the attorney general and all of the rest of the cabinet members as well as legislative action we believe is required. >> vice president biden.

no matter what happens, the issue will end up in the supreme court. with me now, my guests. let me start with you. obviously a big day tomorrow with joe biden meeting with the nra and wal-mart and others. in the end, this has to get through congress and it also could be affected by executive order by the president and figh facing a sanction by the supreme court. >> there has not been much discussion about the challenge that has almost been inevitable. recently, a couple of years ago the supreme court has really emphasized that the lawful

possession of fire arms is something that our constitution allows and protects. and it protects it with very clear language. >> it is a legal quagmire. there is no other word i can use for this. for a long time. the in interpretation for the second amendment not applying for an individual and that is now being used firmly as their right to have any arms that they like. >> you have been talking about how the conservative movement in this country has deregulated fire arms in congress and it is truen the courts true. that is true. what guns are covered is unclear. the hellar case is about handguns in the home. the again is what about larger

weapons. what about outside the home. the dangerous weapons can still be prohibited. >> an ar 15 that can unload 100 bullets in a minute is a dangerous weapon. >> interesting point was raised by kennedy the other night. the second amendment said it should be revisited every 20 years to see if it is still appropriate. is that true? >> well, jefferson was coming back from paris when the bill of rights was introduced and adopted by the house. what jefferson did was co correspondent about a bill of rights. he mentioned freedom of the press and freedom against

standing armies. doesn't mention fire arms. he talks about potentials which was the rage original right. the most important take away from what thomas jefferson, is he was a gun owner and a hunter, he believed in wandering the woods with a gun. but here is his central legacy to us in terms of constitutional thought i believe. he once said that to ask a country to be governed by a constitution that was passed in previous years is like asking a grown man to wear a child's coat. without the living constitution

idea. it became the most awful of things irration al. >> here is the problem. then it comes down to the supreme court. they are the ultimate revisiting the constitution and as we saw in 2008. actually in my view they have been dangerous in the way that they have done this. they have been what they have always been which is political. they have reflected the president's point. george w. bush by appointing john roberts and samuel alito give power. >> bill clinton said today i grew up in this hunting culture. but this is nuts. why does anyone need a 30 round clip for a gun? and if you start from that

premise why does any civilian need them? the answer is they don't. >> he grew up hunting and i own guns. and i have absolutely no tolerance for the idea that these military style weapons should be loose in a civilian population. >> thank you. when we come back. she said america may be the tipping point on gun control. ar are riana huffington. what it may take to stop the killing. what's wrong with fetch? or chase? let's do this larry! ooh, i got it, i got it! (narrator) the calorie-smart nutrition in beneful healthy weight... includes grains and real chicken, because a healthy dog is a playful dog. beneful healthy weight. find us on facebook to help put more play in your day. [ male announcer ] how do you make 70,000 trades a second...

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i'm here to tell you. 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms. >> holy [ bleep ] we can't even begin to address 30,000 gun deaths that are actually in reality happening in this country every year because a few

of us must remain vigilant against the rise of imaginary hitler. >> jon stewart on his tie rate against me. joining me now is arrianna huffington. where were you when you heard or saw the alex jones interview? >> well actually i was here. i was in las vegas. um, i was actually here for the ces and it was stunning. how stressful is all of this for you piers? >> well the president today has made it clear in a statement that i am staying. i am going to remain in america and it has gone down very badly with alex jones and i'm not

going to be deported. he said i was operating under the first amendment while i was talking about the second. we both work in a city that has tight gun control. what do you make of the persistent claim from the nra and the gun rights lobbyists that more guns means a safer america? >> well it is of course an in sane claim and what is different this time is that the american public is going to put up more delays. after the shooting, the thing that the white house press secretary said is this is not the time to discuss changes in gun laws. the american public in many ways in social media through what you

and and many others did in mainstream media made the point that, no, we are not going to wait. and i think as a result we're having progress. the president set up the task force under joe biden, today had the meeting that included walmart, which is incredibly promising. walmart is, after all, a company that caters to families and families are the ones directly affected by our insane gun laws. and also going back to 2008 actually walmart participated in the coalition of mayors against illegal guns. so there's a precedent here. >> the big problem it seems is that to get anything through congress in terms of new gun legislation is going to be a very tough thing because many of the republican congressmen have made it pretty clear they're not for any kind of gun control in

extension to what's already in existence and the nra exerts huge pressure on these congressmen and women and basically threatens them, you know, we can get you out of office. >> when you have somebody like general stanley mccrystal making it clear that assault rifles have no place in america, that has a very deep impact because this is not you or me or any kind of pundit who can be dismissed or any parent who can be dismissed because they're being too emotional, this is a former general. it's getting a little harder for them to counter the growing momentum. i'm not saying it's not going to be a very, very tough fight about there seems to be a kind of approaching tipping point. >> i don't know if you saw jon stuart last night. he gave a 20-minute salvo

against the begun rights lobbyists. >> an epidemic of gun violence -- oh, we can't, our hands are tied. we can't do anything. we a nation of overreactors to everything. we have step by step child proofed this entire country. 20 years ago a guy threw a rock over an overpass and it hit a car windshield, now every overpass in the country is like a habit trail. football stadiums have giant nets behind the goal posts so you don't get hit by the ball you're supposed to be watching. we can't do anything about this? >> i mean, he, i think, pointe out the absurdity of the hypocritical position of the gun rights lobbyist, which is that i can't go to walmart and buy six pa

packets of sudafed or various types of french cheese because it's bad for my health but i can buy an assault rifle loaded up with a hundred bullets and magazines and go and commit an outrage. that's legal. >> it has nothing to do with the second amendment because there are so many, including many conservatives have said, that it was never the intention. second amendment. so there's something that happens, piers, when we're living in tough economic times that makes people irrational about security. that's also what we're facing at the moment. there's a lot of fear in this country and a lot of it is fear of the future and fear of unemployment and in moments like that, we often see that kind of desire to cling to something like guns as a way to guarantee some kind of safety in the future. >> i couldn't agree more.

let's turn briefly to what you're doing in vegas. you're down there at the big extravaganza and you've got a hot new app, i hear. >> well, we are here, you know, for the consumer electronics show and there's a tremendous emphasis here for this on digital health, on the desire among many consumers to take control of their own health and we have launched here an app called gps for the soul, which as a result of the medical technology in the app gives you a reading of your stress level, your heart rate variability and then you can create a guide that consists of all the things that help you get back in sync, you know, pictures of your loved ones, your baby, your dog, music, prayers, poetry and then you can share guides with friends and the idea behind it

is to increase our awareness around our stress levels because we now have incredible scientific evidence that stress is a real killer. >> i wish i'd had that app on monday night with alex jones, i must say, ari arianna. i was there last year. it's great fun. very exciting. enjoy yourself. >> it is and great to talk to you, piers, and thanks for your campaign. >> i'm just going to keep going. thanks very much. i'll talk to you soon. >> thank you. >> and we'll be right back. anyone have occasional constipation,

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